Thomas D. Gorman: You wrote an article in Inc. Magazine back in 1995 and in that you wrote, "In a world of constant change, the fundamentals are more important than ever." Does that still hold true? It's sort of obvious, but in today's environment, we have to ask.
Jim Collins: Yeah.
So, let's just first of all, let's just look at a number of, ones that we know, in the United States. Look up the Hewlett Packard turnaround under Mark Hurd. Did he go back to some very disciplined fundamentals?
Yes.
Let's look at the IBM turnaround under Lou Gerstner -- a, tremendous time of turmoil. I mean, the rise of distributed computing, the threat to the mainframe business. The challenges they had, they hadn't even come up with the idea of broad services yet. IBM on the cover of magazines as a dinosaur, did he go back to fundamentals of really great people, really good evidence-based analysis, deciding with great rigor how to allocate resources, building a team of 300?
Look at the challenges that Blake Nordstrom faced when he took over Nordstrom, a family business. And ask what it took to get them back on track. He had a company with a great history which had lost sight of some basic fundamentals, starting with things like great customer service and good systems. They were facing tremendous change in the retail industry, a world in complete flux, plus new competition like the Gap and whoever else. In the face of all that, he took them back to fundamentals.
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高德思：你1995年曾在《Inc》雜志上寫過一篇文章，你說，“在一個(gè)不斷變化的世界中，基本原則比以往任何時(shí)候都更重要。”現(xiàn)在依然如此嗎？這似乎是顯而易見的，但是在今天的環(huán)境下，我們必須要在此提出這個(gè)問題。
吉姆·柯林斯：是的。
那么，首先我們來看看美國一些家喻戶曉的公司。看看惠普在馬克?赫德（Mark Hurd）的帶領(lǐng)下如何逆轉(zhuǎn)。他是否回歸了一些嚴(yán)格的基本原則呢？
是的。
再看看郭士納（Lou Gerstner）領(lǐng)導(dǎo)下IBM如何翻盤，當(dāng)時(shí)情況非?；靵y。我是指，分布式計(jì)算興起，對(duì)主機(jī)業(yè)務(wù)構(gòu)成了挑戰(zhàn)。而IBM的挑戰(zhàn)是：他們當(dāng)時(shí)甚至還沒有想到要廣泛轉(zhuǎn)向服務(wù)業(yè)。當(dāng)時(shí)雜志封面都把IBM描述為恐龍，而郭士納不也正是回歸了那些最基本的原則嗎？這些基本原則包括（引入）優(yōu)秀的員工，進(jìn)行以實(shí)證為基礎(chǔ)的優(yōu)秀分析，及其嚴(yán)格地決定如何分配資源，建立一個(gè)300人的團(tuán)隊(duì)等等。
看看布雷克?諾德斯特龍（Blake Nordstrom）掌管諾德斯特龍這家族公司的時(shí)候都面對(duì)了哪些挑戰(zhàn)。然后想想他們采用了什么方法回到正確的發(fā)展軌道？諾德斯特龍公司有偉大的歷史，但是此前忽略了一些最基本的原則，比如一切都要從卓越的客戶服務(wù)開始，同時(shí)必須擁有優(yōu)秀的系統(tǒng)。當(dāng)時(shí)的零售業(yè)市場正發(fā)生著整體的變化，還誕生了新的競爭對(duì)手，比如Gap公司等等。面對(duì)這些，諾德斯特龍帶領(lǐng)公司回歸了基本原則。
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